Need Some Help Identifying a Gate Signature
I recently inherited a Liberty brand gun safe from a deceased family member that is locked with the combination unknown. The safe is around 10 years old and is secured with an S&G 6741 type 2 mechanical combination lock that it came standard with originally.
I already know whats inside the safe, and I know that it's nothing of tremendous value or importance to me, so I thought this safe would make for a wonderful opportunity for me to learn about safe manipulation on. I have been involved in locksport in my spare time for the last few years so I possess a fair amount of knowledge and practice picking pin tumbler locks, but up until now I have had zero experience with mechanical safe locks, so this is my very first attempt at something like this.
Thankfully, after doing quite a bit of research on the subject, I have discovered that the S&G 6741 that my safe has on it, is probably one of the best locks to learn on as it has fairly large tolerances and isn't known for being a very tricky lock to manipulate.
Once I was confident that I at least had some idea of what I was doing, I began my first attempts at manipulating my safe open. I attached a digital angle gauge to the dial with some Gorilla Mounting tape and experimented with it for a little bit to make sure that it was giving me consistent readings. Once I was confident that it was consistently giving me very precise readings, I did some basic conversions (as the angle gauge is only capable of providing me with the degree of the angle it is currently rotated to, thankfully with very high precision down to a tenth of a degree however), and this allowed me to map out a range of measurements that I could convert to each 1/8 increment of the distance between the two numbers my contact points were found between (97-98 and 4-5 specifically).
With everything in place, once I felt confident that I was consistently reading my contact points precisely with each new measurement, I decided to do my first graph. I went with the standard AWL approach and decided to graph every other number, as opposed to doing every 2.5 numbers that I otherwise could have done with this particular lock.
To my dismay, I found no obvious gate signatures anywhere on the dial using AWL. To be sure, I repeated the exact same exercise all over again and got pretty much the exact same results, which at least validated the accuracy and consistency of my digital angle gauge.
With no luck using AWL, I next decided to try running wheel 3 alone in isolation with left rotation, while I placed wheels 1 and 2 on the lowest point on the wheel stack that I had discovered using my previous AWL graph, using right rotation to do so. I again found no obvious gate signature and my graph ended up being fairly similar to the one I produced using AWL. In both cases, there was some small changes to the location of the contact points, but they were always slow progressing and they never changed more than 1/8 of an increment between any two consecutive numbers I tested. They also never even slightly formed any of the prototypical gate signature patterns that I know I'm supposed to be looking for.
Frustrated, I next decided to try running wheel 2 in isolation using right rotation, while placing wheels 1 and 3 on the lowest point on the wheel stack using left rotation. This graph finally produced some meaningful data, I just have no clue how to interpret it as it appears to be in almost the exact opposite orientation that I would expect a gate signature to appear in.
To be absolutely certain that my graph was correct, I first magnified it at 71 and 73, then retested every number from 76 down to 68, and I ended up getting the EXACT same results so I know my graph has to be correct.
I have included an image of the relevant portion of the graph I produced running wheel 2 in isolation with right rotation, with wheels 1 and 3 both placed on 14 with left rotation, as it was the lowest point on the wheel stack according to my AWL graph. I have only included the portion of my graph that spans from numbers 100 down to 40, as the other part of the graph that covers 40 down through 2 reveals nothing of relevance and it looks very similar to how this graph appears between 70 and 40.
Any help anyone can provide me with would be greatly appreciated as I'm not sure what to make of these results because the contact points seem to rapidly move away from each other and then return, as opposed to moving closer to each other and then returning to their original positions, as I have been taught was supposed to be the case with gate signatures.
I recently inherited a Liberty brand gun safe from a deceased family member that is locked with the combination unknown. The safe is around 10 years old and is secured with an S&G 6741 type 2 mechanical combination lock that it came standard with originally.
I already know whats inside the safe, and I know that it's nothing of tremendous value or importance to me, so I thought this safe would make for a wonderful opportunity for me to learn about safe manipulation on. I have been involved in locksport in my spare time for the last few years so I possess a fair amount of knowledge and practice picking pin tumbler locks, but up until now I have had zero experience with mechanical safe locks, so this is my very first attempt at something like this.
Thankfully, after doing quite a bit of research on the subject, I have discovered that the S&G 6741 that my safe has on it, is probably one of the best locks to learn on as it has fairly large tolerances and isn't known for being a very tricky lock to manipulate.
Once I was confident that I at least had some idea of what I was doing, I began my first attempts at manipulating my safe open. I attached a digital angle gauge to the dial with some Gorilla Mounting tape and experimented with it for a little bit to make sure that it was giving me consistent readings. Once I was confident that it was consistently giving me very precise readings, I did some basic conversions (as the angle gauge is only capable of providing me with the degree of the angle it is currently rotated to, thankfully with very high precision down to a tenth of a degree however), and this allowed me to map out a range of measurements that I could convert to each 1/8 increment of the distance between the two numbers my contact points were found between (97-98 and 4-5 specifically).
With everything in place, once I felt confident that I was consistently reading my contact points precisely with each new measurement, I decided to do my first graph. I went with the standard AWL approach and decided to graph every other number, as opposed to doing every 2.5 numbers that I otherwise could have done with this particular lock.
To my dismay, I found no obvious gate signatures anywhere on the dial using AWL. To be sure, I repeated the exact same exercise all over again and got pretty much the exact same results, which at least validated the accuracy and consistency of my digital angle gauge.
With no luck using AWL, I next decided to try running wheel 3 alone in isolation with left rotation, while I placed wheels 1 and 2 on the lowest point on the wheel stack that I had discovered using my previous AWL graph, using right rotation to do so. I again found no obvious gate signature and my graph ended up being fairly similar to the one I produced using AWL. In both cases, there was some small changes to the location of the contact points, but they were always slow progressing and they never changed more than 1/8 of an increment between any two consecutive numbers I tested. They also never even slightly formed any of the prototypical gate signature patterns that I know I'm supposed to be looking for.
Frustrated, I next decided to try running wheel 2 in isolation using right rotation, while placing wheels 1 and 3 on the lowest point on the wheel stack using left rotation. This graph finally produced some meaningful data, I just have no clue how to interpret it as it appears to be in almost the exact opposite orientation that I would expect a gate signature to appear in.
To be absolutely certain that my graph was correct, I first magnified it at 71 and 73, then retested every number from 76 down to 68, and I ended up getting the EXACT same results so I know my graph has to be correct.
I have included an image of the relevant portion of the graph I produced running wheel 2 in isolation with right rotation, with wheels 1 and 3 both placed on 14 with left rotation, as it was the lowest point on the wheel stack according to my AWL graph. I have only included the portion of my graph that spans from numbers 100 down to 40, as the other part of the graph that covers 40 down through 2 reveals nothing of relevance and it looks very similar to how this graph appears between 70 and 40.
Any help anyone can provide me with would be greatly appreciated as I'm not sure what to make of these results because the contact points seem to rapidly move away from each other and then return, as opposed to moving closer to each other and then returning to their original positions, as I have been taught was supposed to be the case with gate signatures.